High Performance Wushu Training Forums

[HighPerformanceWushu]

This forum is the place to ask questions or share your experiences/insight about spinning in general. Landing off balance? Can't get that extra rotation? Feel free to start a new thread for any new issues. With everybody's input, this will become a valuable technical resource for all athletes!

Let's help each other get better and keep advancing Wushu to the next level!
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Fundamentals of High Performance Wushu: Taolu Jumps and Spins

[CCAT]

Hi,

I'm having problem with my standard 540 spin. I feel as I jump I go to the side rather than up and end up not having enough torque to complete anything near a 540, I end up doing a badly formed tornado kick, which is incredibly depressing. Are there any exercises that could help me:

A) get heaploads of height
B) Get heaploads of torque that I can release quickly
C) get that kicking leg over and in control to land without letting my other leg drop?

Thanks for the help.
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CCAT

[HighPerformanceWushu]

It looks like you're having trouble with two separate issues here - the jump and the spin. As for your jump going sideways, the most common cause of that is dropping or pulling the leading shoulder in the direction of rotation. So, for a counterclockwise spin, that would be the left shoulder. You have to keep the shoulders parallel to the ground in order to have a vertical spin axis.

The other common problem is pushing off harder with one leg than the other leg. One way to work on fixing this is to jump up straight with only a little bit of rotation (try 90 degrees or 180 degrees). It's a lot harder than it sounds even though it's only 1/4 or 1/2 of a rotation. Focus on jumping evenly off both feet. When you land, you should land without losing your balance.

Download the Quick Reference Training Guide if you haven't done so for more information.

As for generating torque, it comes from the windup (assuming you are doing it from a standing position). It's really a matter of winding up as much as you can, and then unwinding it as fast as you can as you jump. Be sure to use your arms, shoulders and hips to help with the wind/unwind. People often forget about the hips and just pull with the shoulder. That is often less effective because you land facing where your legs face, not your shoulders. And your legs are connected and controlled by the hips.

Again, take a look at the training guide for more information. For even more detailed information, you may want to consider taking a look at the book Fundmamentals of High Performance Wushu: Taolu Jumps and Spins. Aside from chapters packed with information on each technique, there is a chapter dedicated to the mechanics of spinning and training exercises to help improve your rotational ability.

As for your list of questions:

A) get heaploads of height
Consider doing leg strength training and/or plyometric exercises. You will need to develop fast twitch muscles and also enhance your ability to control those muscles (neuromuscular facilitation). Just do a quick search on the web for plyometrics and you'll find lots of information. Alternatively, there are some links on the right side of the pages of the main site High Performance Wushu which may provide some of the information you are looking for (this is not an endorsement for any of the links which may appear there).

B) Get heaploads of torque that I can release quickly
Aside from practicing spinning with the exercises described in the book, you may want to consider working on torso rotational strength exercises. Try to develop your oblique muscles to increase your ability to twist your waist and torso. However, remember, power without perception (control) is virtually useless. You'll need to be able to control that rotational power you develop. And of course, once you generate that rotational momentum, you'll need to pull your body in to rotate even faster.

C) get that kicking leg over and in control to land without letting my other leg drop?
This is a complicated issue and its hard to tell from that description just exactly what you can improve on. Can you post a video for us to look at? Thanks.
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Fundamentals of High Performance Wushu: Taolu Jumps and Spins

[CCAT]

Thanks for the reply. I practice plyometrics for rugby twice a week and I do two sets of 15 squat jumps every morning so I'm not so sure if it's my inability to jump rather than a matter of being unable to concentrate on the height issue when trying a 540 because I'm so concentrated on other things like torque and just generally trying hard.

I haven't got a video camera, so I can't show you my attempt, but I found a video on youtube of somebody attempting a 540 kick and failing in a similar way to me.
Link


I don't know if that helps? Thanks again.
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CCAT

[HighPerformanceWushu]

There are a few things that the guy in the video can work on to improve his overall jump inside kick.

1. The kick is way too slow - it takes too long to start and it comes down too slow as well. The kicking leg needs to reach its target and come back down as fast as possible in order for you to spin well. Take a look at Issue #2 of the FHPW Newsletters - there's an article on that there.

2. The upper body and lower body are not synchronized - this affects the ability to rotate quickly, especially after the kick. It also makes the kick slower as well since it starts later than it should.

As for the jump height, you might want to check to see if you are a quad or calf jumper. If you are a calf jumper, a single leg take off is generally easier. However, if you are a quad jumper, a two-footed take off may be eaiser. You'll be able to do that for Wushu jump inside kicks. If you're going for the 540 insides that tricksters or XMA people do, then you're stuck with a single leg take off. Regardless, if you are a quad jumper, you should try to bend your knees more even with the single leg takeoff.

It sounds like you have a good vertical to work with. So, as for the mental aspect, try focusing on the jump itself, and "forget" about the rotation. It's better to start working on height than worrying about rotation. In the beginning, you may not get as much rotation as you would like, but as long as you focus on jumping high, you'll develop better technique. Then, as you become more comfortable (probably weeks later), you can start tweaking your rotation ability to rotate faster.
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[stan]

To add my take on this,

I'm not sure if this applies to you, but the guy in the video has a tendency to fall to the left side of the video frame. Looks like he might be leaning back and to the left side of the frame a bit, and/or his kick is too far ahead (to the right of the frame) of himself. Basically his body isn't centered over his base so when he lands he has to step to the left of the frame afterwards to stay balanced.

Now I'm not as familiar with how a trickster 540 (as in the video) is supposed to be exectued, but as far as wushu goes, it's a typical case of needing to jump with your body straight AND vertical AND over your base. And then making sure to maintain that position while you kick and then torque. Alot of people go crooked/lose balance on spins because they tend to torque in an unbalanced fashion where they pull the spin through their shoulders but then one shoulder either drops or raises.

[CCAT]

Thanks guys, I'll take your points into consideration and I'll save up for that Wushu High Performance book. I do taekwondo so I'm relatively unfamiliar with the principles of Wushu, although I regard wushu artists techniques as some of the most fluent and technically precise of any of the arts.

I'll get back to if I can do the 540 or if I have any other troubles with it, but thanks very much for your advice.

CCAT
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CCAT

[HighPerformanceWushu]

Interestingly enough, I started my martial arts career in Tae Kwon Do so I'm familiar with those spin kicks. Are you looking to do a 540 spin axe kick or a hammer kick ("540" spin roundhouse, landing on the kicking leg)?

In those kicks, the actual movement of the kick is different from the jump inside for Wushu. And so there will need to be certain adjustments to accomodate for the differences. Height isn't as much of a concern for those kicks but if you're looking to work up to 720 jumping backswing (back spin heel) kicks, then it'll be important.
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Fundamentals of High Performance Wushu: Taolu Jumps and Spins

[CCAT]

The 540 kick I'm attempting is the kick where you land on the kicking leg, like a followed through tornado kick.
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CCAT

[HighPerformanceWushu]

I see - seems like that kick is more similar to the XFJ (Jump Inside Kick) in Wushu than the TKD hammer kick. In that case, one important thing to remember when trying to land on the kicking leg is to snap the leg down after it reaches it peak. That'll help you land on the leg and also help you spin around faster since you decrease your radius of rotation.
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[Nekfoekly]

I finally got a chance to check out your web page, and I must say that I'm impressed. Hope everything is going well. Take care!
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